tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:forum-3990426Nabble - Kelt Sailboat Forum2024-03-29T05:01:52ZForum for the exchange of information related to the Kelt sailboats built in France and Canada.tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559835Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-11-15T16:06:52Z2023-11-15T16:06:52ZPkeane49
Hi John,
<br/><br/>With the size of the prop on the T9.9, there was no way to get it through the well opening to keep it out of the water. As mentioned previously in this chain, you have to put the motor in the well still while on the hard then attach the prop prior to splashing. With my old Honda 9.9 (circa 1983) there was no problem lifting it out of the well and propping it up on a 2x4 slung across the cockpit seats when docked.
<br/><br/>Once back in port, I routinely disconnect my fuel line and let it run out of fuel, meanwhile I connect a fresh water hose to the specialized flushing port on the motor and flush it after every use. Makes a huge difference based on what I found in the old Honda when I took it apart.... large deposits of green salty guck in the cooling passageways.
<br/><br/>The power tilt on the new motor makes it easy to lift it clear of the water while under sail.
<br/><br/>You're right about the trade-offs, but I'm pleased with the choice I made.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559834Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-11-14T20:57:29Z2023-11-14T20:57:29ZJohn Peter Mitchell
Wow! 1.5 knots of drag would be disappointing for most sailors. Could the "magnetic barnacles" have been the main cause of such a drag on the boat speed?
<br/><br/>By routinely lifting my outboard clear of the sea water after each use, I have yet to attract any barnacles. I also follow my Yamaha instruction book's suggestion to rinse the engine's cooling passages with fresh water for a minimum of 15 minutes after each use.
<br/><br/>I do envy your noise reduction, of the engine's noise, by positioning it onto the outside of the transom. There are pros and cons each way... Good luck with your new bracket. JM
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559833Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-11-13T17:07:24Z2023-11-13T17:07:24ZPkeane49
I recently moved my Yamaha T9.9 out of the well and onto the transom using a Panther bracket. I have also added remote shifting and throttle. The motor is no longer a barnacle magnet, as I can swing it clear of the water at the dock. True, I have lost some of my maneuverability in close quarters, but the cockpit is much quieter when motoring and I have gained about a knot and a half by being able to swing the motor out of the water when sailing (cutting drag from the lower unit and 11" propeller) and also plugging the well flush with the bottom. I'm very happy with the arrangement. Next spring, during haul out, I plan to glass over the well completely
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559831Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-13T09:26:14Z2023-09-13T09:26:14ZJohn Peter Mitchell
Good morning Glenn,
<br/><br/>Yes, the engine is firmly wedged between the modified mount and the transom: there is some pressure on the transom forward face just under the manufacturer's I.D. plate.
<br/><br/>When I run the engine at sufficient rpms to produce ~5 knots of boat speed, there is an annoying amount of rattling. I discovered that the source of the rattle is the top rudder pintle shaking in the gudgeon. I have yet to address that. I'm thinking of wrapping the pintle in something to isolate the two metals(???). Perhaps a thin rubber finger protector. On the other hand, your thought may be the best solution: to keep the engine away from the transom... It may call for a smaller engine in this space(?).
<br/><br/>On another concern, which you had written about earlier in this thread, the exhaust fumes in the cockpit. Rick Bera, a former acquaintance of my Ontario days, described his solution to this problem. My engine also has an exhaust pressure relief mounted on the back of the engine just below the engine head. Rick Bera described two diverter hoses and posted a great picture of those emerging from the transom scuppers. I have just one clear plastic hose (1/4" I.D.) attached which is 36" long. This hose can be put through either cockpit scupper. That may solve your exhaust fume problem.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559830Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-12T20:23:17Z2023-09-12T20:23:17ZGlenn Thomson
Hi John. My question is does the rear of engine rub on the transom. If it does, doesn't that bother you? Mine annoyingly rattled while under way the more RPM's the more the engine wanted to push itself aft. So I removed the wedge.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559829Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-12T09:28:26Z2023-09-12T09:28:26ZJohn Peter Mitchell
Hello Glenn,
<br/><br/>The engine is tightly wedged in between this modified mount and the transom. Once the engine is lowered into running position, it cannot be turned to the left or right. On the plus side, the engine cannot fall through the hole in the hull, and so is very secure. The propeller wash is evenly split by the rudder which helps with steering in close quarters. On balance, I have come to prefer this arrangement over the transom mount method which I had on a previous sailboat (a J29).
<br/><br/>At the marina where I dock, there is another Kelt 7.60 which has a transom mounted outboard engine. It is owned by a sailing co-operative which has a large membership list: so the boat gets a great deal of use by sailors who possess varying levels of sailing/motoring experience. The co-op group have linked the rudder directly to the engine so that rudder and engine turn simultaneously. This seems to have helped the boat's manoeuvring in the marina's narrow fairways. Cheers, John
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559828Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-09-12T06:03:24Z2023-09-12T06:03:24ZGlenn Thomson
Oh ya. That is sweet. i would have left that alone too. Just that I had too much water ingress from leaky hatch and from both bow cleats that loosened up. My boat had been let go for about 3 years. The owner's health was depleting, all he ventured to do was to come to the boat and barbecue once and a while. When I pealed away the v-birth ceiling the cleats were exposed and I could re seal the cleats. I was surprised to see that the cleats didn't have backing plates, so I inserted a couple of stainless pieces to beef up the strength. Then I read, I think in the manual that there was hardwood sandwiched within the hull where the cleat bolts came through deck. In any case, those cleats are important as the only fastening point for the anchor or dock lines.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559827Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-12T05:43:35Z2023-09-12T05:43:35ZGlenn Thomson
Yes I see the mount modification....to get a more vertical perch for engine. I screwed on a plastic wedge to the backside of the mount and it forced the protrusions on the rear of engine cowling to rub on the inner transom wall. Not much room to play in that well is there?
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559826Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-09-11T10:58:05Z2023-09-11T10:58:05ZJohn Peter Mitchell
Hello again Glenn,
<br/><br/>Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed answer to all my questions. I imagine there must have been a few moments during de-construction that gave you serious pause(?). However, you laboured onwards and achieved a pleasing result, no doubt. I hope to see some of your pictures of the finished cabin. Many of the small lightweight racing sailboats appear to be finished inside with a weight saving paint finish (and some even leave out the paint-Yikes!).
<br/><br/>Here is a picture of my boat's vee-berth without the pockets. I believe this is where I stop: at least, for now...<img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559826/Vberth_no_pockets.jpg" border="0" style="display: block; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"/>
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559825Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-09-10T23:43:24Z2023-09-10T23:43:24ZGlenn Thomson
A little mould, but at that time the windows leaked some. I didn't use a primer. Just the Interlux Brightside.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559824Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-09-10T23:39:23Z2023-09-10T23:39:23ZGlenn Thomson
No problem with condensation. Even the odd time, overnighting with electric heater on in September condensation was light. What I notice with noise is the slap of a wave or engine noise from another boat very near. The water transfers sound more profoundly. I considered a layer of thin insulation rolled out in v-brth covered with cedar strips horizontal layed, but not likely going to happen
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559823Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-09-10T23:13:45Z2023-09-10T23:13:45ZGlenn Thomson
Yes. I stripped the whole cabin, v-birth, and head. What motivated me was the fallout of dust, actually the dried up foam backing on the burlap. And it was bothering our breathing after brushing up against the ceiling. I am not a perfectionist. I just wanted a clean dust free environment. I scraped mostly, with a drag typed paint scraper, the ones with replaceable blades. Some sanding, grinding, tried some products like acetone and paint stripper but those weren't good use of time. A lot of the carpet would peal off in large pieces, except in and round corners and pockets like around companion opening. There, I took a 60 grit sander and ground the stuck carpet smooth so that the threads wouldn't be poking out.
<br/><br/>Some of the carpet and lots of the carpet cement was really stuck on! I did my best smoothing out the ridges of glue. Then the Sailing season came. So I got what I think is the best paint, Interlux Brightside white, rolled and brushed on 3 coats. Super durable coating and thus far really good adhesion.
<br/><br/>I did away with the wood interior window frames, they're quite damaged by water leaks. Plus Needed them gone to re- seal the windows.
<br/><br/>I'll post a few after photos soon. I have a few pics during the miserable process.
<br/><br/><img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559823/IMG_9524.jpg" border="0" alt="v birth"/><br/><img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559823/IMG_9525.jpg" border="0"/><br/><img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559823/IMG_9660.jpg" border="0"/>
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559822Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-09-10T15:36:02Z2023-09-10T15:36:02ZJohn Peter Mitchell
Hello Glenn,
<br/><br/>Did you strip the fore cabin fabric as well as the main cabin? Could you explain how you painted: primer? top-coat? Which brand of paint? etc.
<br/><br/>Would you be able to post pictures of the results?
<br/><br/>I removed the badly degraded pockets from the vee-berth area. That has visually improved that small cabin. I am tempted to remove the rest of the fabric and would appreciate knowing just what you found underneath your fabric. Was there any mould? Was there contact cement which you had to remove? Was the interior hull side surface rough or smooth?
<br/><br/>Cheers, John
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559821Re: Redoing sole boards on Lotus!2023-09-09T19:50:06Z2023-09-09T19:50:06ZLynn Israeltag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559820Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-09T18:39:55Z2023-09-09T18:39:55ZLynn Israel
John, Thank you! That is incredibly helpful. I will work on this project this fall. I'm on the fence about in the future staying with the 9.9 Yamaha or switching out to a smaller engine like a Tohatsu. The Yamaha is such a tight fit now that it's a chore just to get the cover clamps off. And at my age, I have no desire to dead lift 90 pounds so the pulley is a great alternative. Lynn
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559819Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-09T12:24:39Z2023-09-09T12:24:39ZJohn Peter Mitchell
<img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559819/Modified_mount.jpg" border="0" style="display: block; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"/><br/><br/>Lynn and Glen,
<br/><br/>This picture also shows how the previous owner modified the engine mount...
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559818Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-09T12:21:15Z2023-09-09T12:21:15ZJohn Peter Mitchell
John, It looks like a great arrangement. Could you please answer a few questions. Thank you, sir.
<br/>1. Is your engine completely out of the water when placed on the block?
<br/>2. Any concerns about that weight on the backstay? I have a Yamaha 9.9.
<br/>3. Could you explain how you flush with fresh water?
<br/><br/>Hello Lynn,
<br/><br/>1. Yes. I will show a picture in a following post. In that picture you will see that I have a clear piece of plexiglass held down by a piece of plywood to prevent otters from swimming up into the cockpit and making a mess.
<br/>2.On the split backstay there is a tightening device which, when pulled downwards, draws the two backstay legs together. This bends the mast a little, but (hopefully) it will not break the mast. After all, that is what it's designed to do for efficient upwind sailing: reduces the headstay sag and flattens the mainsail camber. Recently a 210lbs. friend climbed my mast safely to the top and down again. My engine weighs considerably less than him.
<br/>3.In one of the pictures you will see a black hose connector which allows for a standard garden hose thread to connect to the engine's cooling system. This hose connector is shown disconnected from the engine, but it must be re-connected before the engine is started. This is Yamaha's method which differs from other engine manufacturers(?).
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559817Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-09T10:43:27Z2023-09-09T10:43:27ZLynn Israel
John, It looks like a great arrangement. Could you please answer a few questions. Thank you, sir.
<br/>1. Is your engine completely out of the water when placed on the block?
<br/>2. Any concerns about that weight on the backstay? I have a Yamaha 9.9.
<br/>3. Could you explain how you flush with fresh water?
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559816Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-09T09:22:55Z2023-09-09T09:22:55ZJohn Peter Mitchell
T<img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559816/Ready_to_raise.jpg" border="0" style="display: block; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"/>The block and tackle, ready to assist my aging muscles with the raising of the engine.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559815Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-09T09:19:48Z2023-09-09T09:19:48ZJohn Peter Mitchell
...and the storage bracket.<img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559815/Storage_mount.jpg" border="0" style="display: block; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"/>
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559814Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-09T09:17:26Z2023-09-09T09:17:26ZJohn Peter Mitchell
<img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559814/Stored_and_covered.jpg" border="0" style="display: block; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"/><br/><br/>Hello Glen,
<br/><br/>I will try to post other pictures after this test picture posts successfully. This is how the motor looks on its wooden storage bracket.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559813Re: Redoing sole boards on Lotus!2023-09-09T06:16:12Z2023-09-09T06:16:12ZGlenn Thomson
Very nice.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559812Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-09T06:11:51Z2023-09-09T06:11:51ZGlenn Thomson
Yes. I would be interested seeing pictures of your device. I put a carabiner in my aft stay and a less than adequate block an tackle attached it to a motor harness and used it a couple of times. Now I am back to pulling it out. I have a 2x4 that spans across the 2 benches and the motor remains mostly upright, with the prop resting on the edge of the well hole.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559811Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-09-08T09:01:54Z2023-09-08T09:01:54ZJohn Peter Mitchell
I purchased my Kelt 7.60 in November 2022 from the previous owner who had owned the boat almost from new. It's a 1982 model 321B (I'm guessing the "B" indicates a February build) which he purchased in 1983. He began his ownership with a Honda 9.9hp then downsized to another Honda 8hp and finally downsized to a Yamaha twin cylinder 6hp. This is the motor which I have to lower and raise in the cockpit well for each sailing use: the motor weighs 90lbs. My 77 year old body struggles with this and so I was going to make a small davit to help with the raising of this 90lbs, but first I tried attaching a 3 part block and tackle to the adjustable backstay. That has worked wonderfully well.
<br/><br/>I have a small wooden support upon which I can rest the motor, on the cockpit floor, when the sailing is done for the day. As I sail in saltwater, the engine benefits from a freshwater flushing after each use (the engine manual suggests 15 minutes of flushing). I do have some pictures which I could try to post if there is any interest from other forum members.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559810Hull/Deck-head fabric liner replacement(?)2023-09-08T08:26:11Z2023-09-08T08:26:11ZJohn Peter Mitchell
Has anyone tried to replace the fabric liner in the vee-berth area on their 7.60? Mine is looking tired...
<br/><br/>I am new to the forum, but I have been reading many of the posts. I sail my Kelt in Victoria BC. The Kelt 7.60 is my fourth keel boat, the smallest I have owned and the best suited for my "old man" sailing plans. As the Pardeys wrote in their books: "The smaller the boat, the greater the fun."
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559809Redoing sole boards on Lotus!2023-09-02T14:28:48Z2023-09-02T14:28:48ZLynn Israel
<img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559809/20230902_131841.jpg" border="0"/>
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559808Kelt 9.0 swing keel question.2023-07-20T12:01:53Z2023-07-20T12:01:53ZKevman
So my swing keel is stuck in the up position from no use last few years by PO.
<br/>I've removed the SS Centerboard tower and found two nylon blocks on either side of the keel just forward of the hole thru the hull.
<br/>The big question is are these just keel nesting blocks to keep the keel from banging around while retracted and they are bolted in place thru the outside of the hollow well OR are these two nylon blocks bolted TO the swing keel and go up and down with it so it is always centered.
<br/>It appears that since they are located at the highest point on the keel that if they are attached to the keel that they would NOT come out of the well or slot during sailing use but maybe would come out for replacement while in travel lift slings up high and the board pushed forward past normal.
<br/>Has anyone dealt with these nylon centering blocks before?<img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559808/IMG_20230719_193820823.jpg" border="0"/><img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559808/IMG_20230719_193811680%7E2.jpg" border="0"/>
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559807Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-07-02T18:16:36Z2023-07-02T18:16:36ZLynn Israel
Glenn, Thanks. A lot of work on the hatch boards. I pulled the sole boards and I hope to have them chemically stripped by a furniture refinishing company, if possible. I have not considered what you have done to the interior but it sounds as if it's a good fit for you. I really like the nautical look of the afromosia wood that is even in our v bearth. That said, I need to add some better lighting by changing out the factory lights and adding led bulbs. Winter is coming and we need more light!!! Lynn
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559806Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-07-02T16:43:53Z2023-07-02T16:43:53Zayar
Glenn,
<br/><br/>Did you remove the ceiling carpet as well? Any change in sound insulation or condensation? I assume the carpet is relatively easy to remove.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559805Re: Photo of new hatch boards2023-07-01T14:14:16Z2023-07-01T14:14:16ZGlenn Thomson
That's a nice cover Lynn, you did a good job. I made a tinted 3 piece one last year. Mainly because I wanted more light and to see out. At the same time stripped all the berber carpet off the walls and painted whole interior white. BIG difference having a little cabin nice and bright!
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559804Re: Replaced wood block between motor mount and transom2023-07-01T12:00:37Z2023-07-01T12:00:37ZGlenn Thomson
Good work Mark. So that wood block was against your transom? Is it your preference to have motor mounted to stbd? Your motor is tiller control?
<br/>
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559803Photo of new hatch boards2023-06-27T06:55:04Z2023-06-27T06:55:04ZLynn Israel
<img src="http://kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com/file/n7559803/20230626_160303.jpg" border="0" alt="New hatch boards"/>
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559802New hatch boards2023-06-27T06:52:53Z2023-06-27T06:52:53ZLynn Israel
I just replaced the hatch boards with new fir marine plywood. I am going to add an exterior handle as it is awkward to fit the top board.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559801Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-06-27T06:47:33Z2023-06-27T06:47:33ZLynn Israel
I too am considering a viable way to lift the motor up without destroying my back in the process. I wonder if removable 2x4 boards in the cockpit with straps under the engine and a pulley system would work? The boards would be easy to stow. Also perhaps a sawhorse design attached to the toerail but then storage at the slip is a problem. In the interim, I am considering using a power washer. Cheers.
tag:kelt-sailboat-forum.30.s1.nabble.com,2006:post-7559800Re: outboard mounted on transom2023-06-26T16:26:56Z2023-06-26T16:26:56Zgandalf
David, wondering if you'd be willing to share a picture of your removable davit set up?
<br/><br/>Glenn, I'm a new Kelt 7.60 owner as of March currently also trying to figure out how to best deal with the engine well in salt water. Made the fun mistake of leaving the outboard in the well for ~3 months in the Chesapeake and it was quite the barnacle-y mess even with regular use! The previous owner had the the strategy of lifting up the outboard and laying it on the cockpit floor on a thick piece of padding when not in use. I've now switched to their approach, however with the weight of yamaha 9.9, it's not the most ideal/relaxing way to end a day on the water. Although I know it's probably fine to leave it on it's tiller side down, I'd rather find a solution where it could be stored upright the majority of the time.
<br/><br/>Aside from adding a mount to the stern, has anyone tried any alternative storage methods just to get the prop out of the water when at the dock?
<br/><br/>Many thanks!
<br/>